diff --git a/piker/brokers/ib/api.py b/piker/brokers/ib/api.py
index cb934187..67e63f70 100644
--- a/piker/brokers/ib/api.py
+++ b/piker/brokers/ib/api.py
@@ -401,7 +401,15 @@ class Client:
         # => we recursively call this method until we get at least
         # as many bars such that they sum in aggregate to the the
         # desired total time (duration) at most.
-        if end_dt:
+        # XXX XXX XXX
+        # WHY DID WE EVEN NEED THIS ORIGINALLY!?
+        # XXX XXX XXX
+        # - if you query over a gap and get no data
+        #   that may short circuit the history 
+        if (
+            end_dt
+            and False
+        ):
             nparr: np.ndarray = bars_to_np(bars)
             times: np.ndarray = nparr['time']
             first: float = times[0]
@@ -410,6 +418,7 @@ class Client:
             if (
                 # len(bars) * sample_period_s) < dt_duration.in_seconds()
                 tdiff < dt_duration.in_seconds()
+                # and False
             ):
                 end_dt: DateTime = from_timestamp(first)
                 log.warning(
@@ -859,6 +868,9 @@ class Client:
                         timeout=timeout,
                     )
                 except TimeoutError:
+                    import pdbp
+                    pdbp.set_trace()
+
                     if raise_on_timeout:
                         raise
                     return None
diff --git a/piker/brokers/ib/feed.py b/piker/brokers/ib/feed.py
index 99b8aef9..a175209d 100644
--- a/piker/brokers/ib/feed.py
+++ b/piker/brokers/ib/feed.py
@@ -174,8 +174,15 @@ async def open_history_client(
             start_dt: datetime | None = None,
 
         ) -> tuple[np.ndarray, str]:
+
             nonlocal max_timeout, mean, count
 
+            if (
+                start_dt
+                and start_dt.timestamp() == 0
+            ):
+                await tractor.pause()
+
             query_start = time.time()
             out, timedout = await get_bars(
                 proxy,
@@ -403,35 +410,55 @@ async def get_bars(
 
                 bars, bars_array, dt_duration = out
 
-                # not enough bars signal, likely due to venue
-                # operational gaps.
-                too_little: bool = False
-                if (
-                    end_dt
-                    and (
-                        not bars
-                        or (too_little :=
-                            start_dt
-                            and (len(bars) * timeframe)
-                                < dt_duration.in_seconds()
-                        )
-                    )
-                ):
-                    if (
-                        end_dt
-                        or too_little
-                    ):
-                        log.warning(
-                            f'History is blank for {dt_duration} from {end_dt}'
-                        )
-                        end_dt -= dt_duration
-                        continue
-
-                    raise NoData(f'{end_dt}')
-
                 if bars_array is None:
                     raise SymbolNotFound(fqme)
 
+                # not enough bars signal, likely due to venue
+                # operational gaps.
+                # too_little: bool = False
+                if end_dt:
+                    if not bars:
+                        # no data returned?
+                        log.warning(
+                            'History frame is blank?\n'
+                            f'start_dt: {start_dt}\n'
+                            f'end_dt: {end_dt}\n'
+                            f'duration: {dt_duration}\n'
+                        )
+                        raise NoData(f'{end_dt}')
+
+                    else:
+                        dur_s: float = len(bars) * timeframe
+                        bars_dur = pendulum.Duration(seconds=dur_s)
+                        dt_dur_s: float = dt_duration.in_seconds()
+                        if dur_s < dt_dur_s:
+                            log.warning(
+                                'History frame is shorter then expected?\n'
+                                f'start_dt: {start_dt}\n'
+                                f'end_dt: {end_dt}\n'
+                                f'duration: {dt_dur_s}\n'
+                                f'frame duration seconds: {dur_s}\n'
+                                f'dur diff: {dt_duration - bars_dur}\n'
+                            )
+                            # NOTE: we used to try to get a minimal
+                            # set of bars by recursing but this ran
+                            # into possible infinite query loops
+                            # when logic in the `Client.bars()` dt
+                            # diffing went bad. So instead for now
+                            # we just return the
+                            # shorter-then-expected history with
+                            # a warning.
+                            # TODO: in the future it prolly makes
+                            # the most send to do venue operating
+                            # hours lookup and
+                            # timestamp-in-operating-range set
+                            # checking to know for sure if we can
+                            # safely and quickly ignore non-uniform history
+                            # frame timestamp gaps..
+                            # end_dt -= dt_duration
+                            # continue
+                            # await tractor.pause()
+
                 first_dt = pendulum.from_timestamp(
                     bars[0].date.timestamp())
 
@@ -854,7 +881,13 @@ async def stream_quotes(
         init_msgs.append(init_msg)
 
         con: Contract = details.contract
-        first_ticker: Ticker = await proxy.get_quote(contract=con)
+        first_ticker: Ticker | None = None
+        with trio.move_on_after(1):
+            first_ticker: Ticker = await proxy.get_quote(
+                contract=con,
+                raise_on_timeout=False,
+            )
+
         if first_ticker:
             first_quote: dict = normalize(first_ticker)
             log.info(
@@ -862,18 +895,6 @@ async def stream_quotes(
                 f'{pformat(first_quote)}'
             )
 
-        # TODO: we should instead spawn a task that waits on a feed
-        # to start and let it wait indefinitely..instead of this
-        # hard coded stuff.
-        # async def wait_for_first_quote():
-        #     with trio.CancelScope() as cs:
-
-        with trio.move_on_after(1):
-            first_ticker = await proxy.get_quote(
-                contract=con,
-                raise_on_timeout=True,
-            )
-
         # NOTE: it might be outside regular trading hours for
         # assets with "standard venue operating hours" so we
         # only "pretend the feed is live" when the dst asset
@@ -884,6 +905,8 @@ async def stream_quotes(
         # (equitiies, futes, bonds etc.) we at least try to
         # grab the OHLC history.
         if (
+            first_ticker
+            and
             isnan(first_ticker.last)
             # SO, if the last quote price value is NaN we ONLY
             # "pretend to do" `feed_is_live.set()` if it's a known
@@ -907,6 +930,19 @@ async def stream_quotes(
             await trio.sleep_forever()
             return  # we never expect feed to come up?
 
+        # TODO: we should instead spawn a task that waits on a feed
+        # to start and let it wait indefinitely..instead of this
+        # hard coded stuff.
+        # async def wait_for_first_quote():
+        #     with trio.CancelScope() as cs:
+
+        # XXX: MUST acquire a ticker + first quote before starting
+        # the live quotes loop!
+        # with trio.move_on_after(1):
+        first_ticker = await proxy.get_quote(
+            contract=con,
+            raise_on_timeout=True,
+        )
         cs: trio.CancelScope | None = None
         startup: bool = True
         while (