diff --git a/piker/brokers/ib/broker.py b/piker/brokers/ib/broker.py
index b768c9a1..4737d376 100644
--- a/piker/brokers/ib/broker.py
+++ b/piker/brokers/ib/broker.py
@@ -148,7 +148,7 @@ async def handle_order_requests(
                 oid=request_msg['oid'],
                 symbol=request_msg['symbol'],
                 reason=f'No account found: `{account}` ?',
-            ).dict())
+            ))
             continue
 
         client = _accounts2clients.get(account)
@@ -161,7 +161,7 @@ async def handle_order_requests(
                 oid=request_msg['oid'],
                 symbol=request_msg['symbol'],
                 reason=f'No api client loaded for account: `{account}` ?',
-            ).dict())
+            ))
             continue
 
         if action in {'buy', 'sell'}:
@@ -188,7 +188,7 @@ async def handle_order_requests(
                     oid=request_msg['oid'],
                     symbol=request_msg['symbol'],
                     reason='Order already active?',
-                ).dict())
+                ))
 
             # deliver ack that order has been submitted to broker routing
             await ems_order_stream.send(
@@ -197,9 +197,8 @@ async def handle_order_requests(
                     oid=order.oid,
                     # broker specific request id
                     reqid=reqid,
-                    time_ns=time.time_ns(),
                     account=account,
-                ).dict()
+                )
             )
 
         elif action == 'cancel':
@@ -559,7 +558,7 @@ async def trades_dialogue(
                     cids2pps,
                     validate=True,
                 )
-                all_positions.extend(msg.dict() for msg in msgs)
+                all_positions.extend(msg for msg in msgs)
 
         if not all_positions and cids2pps:
             raise RuntimeError(
@@ -665,7 +664,7 @@ async def emit_pp_update(
             msg = msgs[0]
             break
 
-    await ems_stream.send(msg.dict())
+    await ems_stream.send(msg)
 
 
 async def deliver_trade_events(
@@ -743,7 +742,7 @@ async def deliver_trade_events(
 
                     broker_details={'name': 'ib'},
                 )
-                await ems_stream.send(msg.dict())
+                await ems_stream.send(msg)
 
             case 'fill':
 
@@ -803,7 +802,7 @@ async def deliver_trade_events(
                     broker_time=trade_entry['broker_time'],
 
                 )
-                await ems_stream.send(msg.dict())
+                await ems_stream.send(msg)
 
                 # 2 cases:
                 # - fill comes first or
@@ -879,7 +878,7 @@ async def deliver_trade_events(
                 cid, msg = pack_position(item)
                 # acctid = msg.account = accounts_def.inverse[msg.account]
                 # cuck ib and it's shitty fifo sys for pps!
-                # await ems_stream.send(msg.dict())
+                # await ems_stream.send(msg)
 
             case 'event':
 
@@ -891,7 +890,7 @@ async def deliver_trade_events(
                 # level...
                 # reqid = item.get('reqid', 0)
                 # if getattr(msg, 'reqid', 0) < -1:
-                # log.info(f"TWS triggered trade\n{pformat(msg.dict())}")
+                # log.info(f"TWS triggered trade\n{pformat(msg)}")
 
                 # msg.reqid = 'tws-' + str(-1 * reqid)
 
diff --git a/piker/brokers/kraken/broker.py b/piker/brokers/kraken/broker.py
index c1e8e108..55295330 100644
--- a/piker/brokers/kraken/broker.py
+++ b/piker/brokers/kraken/broker.py
@@ -191,7 +191,7 @@ async def handle_order_requests(
                             'Invalid request msg:\n{msg}'
                         ),
 
-                    ).dict()
+                    )
                 )
 
 
@@ -289,7 +289,7 @@ async def trades_dialogue(
                     avg_price=p.be_price,
                     currency='',
                 )
-                position_msgs.append(msg.dict())
+                position_msgs.append(msg)
 
         await ctx.started(
             (position_msgs, [acc_name])
@@ -419,7 +419,7 @@ async def handle_order_updates(
                         broker_details={'name': 'kraken'},
                         broker_time=broker_time
                     )
-                    await ems_stream.send(fill_msg.dict())
+                    await ems_stream.send(fill_msg)
 
                     filled_msg = BrokerdStatus(
                         reqid=reqid,
@@ -443,7 +443,7 @@ async def handle_order_updates(
                         # https://github.com/pikers/piker/issues/296
                         remaining=0,
                     )
-                    await ems_stream.send(filled_msg.dict())
+                    await ems_stream.send(filled_msg)
 
                 # update ledger and position tracking
                 with open_ledger(acctid, trades) as trans:
@@ -480,7 +480,7 @@ async def handle_order_updates(
                         # TODO
                         # currency=''
                     )
-                    await ems_stream.send(pp_msg.dict())
+                    await ems_stream.send(pp_msg)
 
             # process and relay order state change events
             # https://docs.kraken.com/websockets/#message-openOrders
@@ -577,7 +577,7 @@ async def handle_order_updates(
                                 ),
                             )
                             msgs.append(resp)
-                            await ems_stream.send(resp.dict())
+                            await ems_stream.send(resp)
 
                         case _:
                             log.warning(
diff --git a/piker/clearing/_client.py b/piker/clearing/_client.py
index 837c28bc..91cb94fa 100644
--- a/piker/clearing/_client.py
+++ b/piker/clearing/_client.py
@@ -58,11 +58,11 @@ class OrderBook:
 
     def send(
         self,
-        msg: Order,
+        msg: Order | dict,
 
     ) -> dict:
         self._sent_orders[msg.oid] = msg
-        self._to_ems.send_nowait(msg.dict())
+        self._to_ems.send_nowait(msg)
         return msg
 
     def update(
@@ -73,9 +73,8 @@ class OrderBook:
 
     ) -> dict:
         cmd = self._sent_orders[uuid]
-        msg = cmd.dict()
-        msg.update(data)
-        self._sent_orders[uuid] = Order(**msg)
+        msg = cmd.copy(update=data)
+        self._sent_orders[uuid] = msg
         self._to_ems.send_nowait(msg)
         return cmd
 
@@ -88,7 +87,7 @@ class OrderBook:
             oid=uuid,
             symbol=cmd.symbol,
         )
-        self._to_ems.send_nowait(msg.dict())
+        self._to_ems.send_nowait(msg)
 
 
 _orders: OrderBook = None
@@ -149,7 +148,7 @@ async def relay_order_cmds_from_sync_code(
     book = get_orders()
     async with book._from_order_book.subscribe() as orders_stream:
         async for cmd in orders_stream:
-            if cmd['symbol'] == symbol_key:
+            if cmd.symbol == symbol_key:
                 log.info(f'Send order cmd:\n{pformat(cmd)}')
                 # send msg over IPC / wire
                 await to_ems_stream.send(cmd)
diff --git a/piker/clearing/_ems.py b/piker/clearing/_ems.py
index b35e6640..9b8e0934 100644
--- a/piker/clearing/_ems.py
+++ b/piker/clearing/_ems.py
@@ -232,7 +232,7 @@ async def clear_dark_triggers(
                             price=submit_price,
                             size=cmd['size'],
                         )
-                        await brokerd_orders_stream.send(msg.dict())
+                        await brokerd_orders_stream.send(msg)
 
                         # mark this entry as having sent an order
                         # request.  the entry will be replaced once the
@@ -248,14 +248,11 @@ async def clear_dark_triggers(
 
                     msg = Status(
                         oid=oid,  # ems order id
-                        resp=resp,
                         time_ns=time.time_ns(),
-                        symbol=fqsn,
+                        resp=resp,
                         trigger_price=price,
-                        broker_details={'name': broker},
-                        cmd=cmd,  # original request message
-
-                    ).dict()
+                        brokerd_msg=cmd,
+                    )
 
                     # remove exec-condition from set
                     log.info(f'removing pred for {oid}')
@@ -578,11 +575,11 @@ async def translate_and_relay_brokerd_events(
 
         if name == 'position':
 
-            pos_msg = BrokerdPosition(**brokerd_msg).dict()
+            pos_msg = BrokerdPosition(**brokerd_msg)
 
             # XXX: this will be useful for automatic strats yah?
             # keep pps per account up to date locally in ``emsd`` mem
-            sym, broker = pos_msg['symbol'], pos_msg['broker']
+            sym, broker = pos_msg.symbol, pos_msg.broker
 
             relay.positions.setdefault(
                 # NOTE: translate to a FQSN!
@@ -684,7 +681,7 @@ async def translate_and_relay_brokerd_events(
                     entry.reqid = reqid
 
                     # tell broker to cancel immediately
-                    await brokerd_trades_stream.send(entry.dict())
+                    await brokerd_trades_stream.send(entry)
 
                 # - the order is now active and will be mirrored in
                 # our book -> registered as live flow
@@ -724,7 +721,7 @@ async def translate_and_relay_brokerd_events(
             # if 10147 in message: cancel
 
             resp = 'broker_errored'
-            broker_details = msg.dict()
+            broker_details = msg
 
             # don't relay message to order requester client
             # continue
@@ -759,7 +756,7 @@ async def translate_and_relay_brokerd_events(
                 resp = 'broker_' + msg.status
 
             # pass the BrokerdStatus msg inside the broker details field
-            broker_details = msg.dict()
+            broker_details = msg
 
         elif name in (
             'fill',
@@ -768,7 +765,7 @@ async def translate_and_relay_brokerd_events(
 
             # proxy through the "fill" result(s)
             resp = 'broker_filled'
-            broker_details = msg.dict()
+            broker_details = msg
 
             log.info(f'\nFill for {oid} cleared with:\n{pformat(resp)}')
 
@@ -786,7 +783,7 @@ async def translate_and_relay_brokerd_events(
                     time_ns=time.time_ns(),
                     broker_reqid=reqid,
                     brokerd_msg=broker_details,
-                ).dict()
+                )
             )
         except KeyError:
             log.error(
@@ -858,7 +855,7 @@ async def process_client_order_cmds(
                         f'Submitting cancel for live order {reqid}'
                     )
 
-                    await brokerd_order_stream.send(msg.dict())
+                    await brokerd_order_stream.send(msg)
 
                 else:
                     # this might be a cancel for an order that hasn't been
@@ -880,7 +877,7 @@ async def process_client_order_cmds(
                             resp='dark_cancelled',
                             oid=oid,
                             time_ns=time.time_ns(),
-                        ).dict()
+                        )
                     )
                     # de-register this client dialogue
                     router.dialogues.pop(oid)
@@ -935,7 +932,7 @@ async def process_client_order_cmds(
                 # handle relaying the ems side responses back to
                 # the client/cmd sender from this request
                 log.info(f'Sending live order to {broker}:\n{pformat(msg)}')
-                await brokerd_order_stream.send(msg.dict())
+                await brokerd_order_stream.send(msg)
 
                 # an immediate response should be ``BrokerdOrderAck``
                 # with ems order id from the ``trades_dialogue()``
@@ -1015,7 +1012,7 @@ async def process_client_order_cmds(
                         resp=resp,
                         oid=oid,
                         time_ns=time.time_ns(),
-                    ).dict()
+                    )
                 )
 
 
diff --git a/piker/clearing/_paper_engine.py b/piker/clearing/_paper_engine.py
index cf580876..802dcf46 100644
--- a/piker/clearing/_paper_engine.py
+++ b/piker/clearing/_paper_engine.py
@@ -117,7 +117,7 @@ class PaperBoi:
             reason='paper_trigger',
             remaining=size,
         )
-        await self.ems_trades_stream.send(msg.dict())
+        await self.ems_trades_stream.send(msg)
 
         # if we're already a clearing price simulate an immediate fill
         if (
@@ -173,7 +173,7 @@ class PaperBoi:
             broker=self.broker,
             time_ns=time.time_ns(),
         )
-        await self.ems_trades_stream.send(msg.dict())
+        await self.ems_trades_stream.send(msg)
 
     async def fake_fill(
         self,
@@ -216,7 +216,7 @@ class PaperBoi:
                 'name': self.broker + '_paper',
             },
         )
-        await self.ems_trades_stream.send(msg.dict())
+        await self.ems_trades_stream.send(msg)
 
         if order_complete:
 
@@ -240,7 +240,7 @@ class PaperBoi:
                     'name': self.broker,
                 },
             )
-            await self.ems_trades_stream.send(msg.dict())
+            await self.ems_trades_stream.send(msg)
 
         # lookup any existing position
         token = f'{symbol}.{self.broker}'
@@ -268,7 +268,7 @@ class PaperBoi:
         )
         pp_msg.size, pp_msg.avg_price = pp.lifo_update(size, price)
 
-        await self.ems_trades_stream.send(pp_msg.dict())
+        await self.ems_trades_stream.send(pp_msg)
 
 
 async def simulate_fills(
@@ -384,7 +384,7 @@ async def handle_order_requests(
                     oid=request_msg['oid'],
                     symbol=request_msg['symbol'],
                     reason=f'Paper only. No account found: `{account}` ?',
-                ).dict())
+                ))
                 continue
 
             # validate
@@ -416,7 +416,7 @@ async def handle_order_requests(
                     # broker specific request id
                     reqid=reqid,
 
-                ).dict()
+                )
             )
 
         elif action == 'cancel':
diff --git a/piker/ui/order_mode.py b/piker/ui/order_mode.py
index 89e7b2d8..83a0ed48 100644
--- a/piker/ui/order_mode.py
+++ b/piker/ui/order_mode.py
@@ -264,7 +264,8 @@ class OrderMode:
         self,
 
     ) -> OrderDialog:
-        '''Send execution order to EMS return a level line to
+        '''
+        Send execution order to EMS return a level line to
         represent the order on a chart.
 
         '''
@@ -273,13 +274,9 @@ class OrderMode:
         oid = str(uuid.uuid4())
 
         # format order data for ems
-        fqsn = symbol.front_fqsn()
-        order = staged.copy(
-            update={
-                'symbol': fqsn,
-                'oid': oid,
-            }
-        )
+        order = staged.copy()
+        order.oid = oid
+        order.symbol = symbol.front_fqsn()
 
         line = self.line_from_order(
             order,